Rays of Hope

[00:00:00] Paula: Welcome to “TesseLeads” with your host Tesse Akpeki and the co-host me Paula Okonneh. “TesseLeads” is a safe, sensitive, and supportive place and space to tell your story, to hear other’s stories, and to share your experiences and stories. You’ll hear how our guests are creating opportunities, navigating diverse challenges, confronting their dilemmas and shaping their futures. So our guest today is, Olukemi Ogunyemi and I’ll tell you a bit about her before we go into the podcast. Olukemi Ogunyemi is proudly black and Scottish. She’s a best book author and award winner in 2022 for her memoirs of a brown girl living in Scotland. This is a beautifully crafted personal memoir. She tells of her momentous struggle growing up as a mixed race child in Scotland, and she tells this in graphic details, where she describes the treatment she received and the acts of racism that continued into adulthood, which affected her life as a wife and a mother of four children. And with that I want to say welcome to “TesseLeads”, because I know Olukemi has a lot to share with you, because reading her book impacted my life as I know it impacted Tesse’s for sure. The theme today is?

[00:01:46] Tesse: Rays of hope.

[00:01:47] Olukemi: Thank you for having me.

[00:01:51] Tesse: Yeah. Olukemi, I’m really curious and as always about you and what you do, and you were described in something I read as a “leading body therapist”. Please enlighten us, what do you do?

[00:02:04] Olukemi: Well, I specialize in injuries, in trauma in the body. You know how emotions can affect, we think they just affect our mind, but they don’t, they affect our whole being. Sometimes that can go into a physical injury in the body. Sometimes it can just be just emotional stuff that goes on. So I help people work through that and understand it. And if there’s pain there, I can alleviate that as well. So yeah, it’s basically just helping the whole of the person really. Although they might just present with a sore back. There’s always more reason than bending down to pick something up of why somebody’s back could go out. Yeah so we do that.

[00:02:56] Tesse: You’re making a difference in the world right, with this work you do.

[00:03:00] Olukemi: I hope so. Yeah, yeah, I am.

[00:03:02] Tesse: Well, Paula did say that one of the ways you’re making the difference in the world is through your writing and “A Brown Girl In The Ring”, which you wrote, and which others recognize as such wonderful work that you got there. You know, an award for it has and still is changing the way people understand the impacts of racism in your life, in life of your children and others. So, you know, one of the curiosities I have about your life since you wrote this book, because I’m aware that you know, you published shortly after 2020 pandemic started.

[00:03:40] Olukemi: Yeah. 2020. 2021.

[00:03:43] Tesse: Yeah, and I’m sure that you know the things that have happened since then. Tell us a bit about this, share, you know, sort of the things that you have been witnessing experiencing and things that have become more alive for you since you published the book.

[00:04:01] Olukemi: Well, it’s definitely changed my life in a way that I didn’t expect, personally. I still very am on a personal journey of discovery, which I didn’t think it would bring up for me actually. But what I realized was I put down on paper the pain that I didn’t realize I still held. And as you both understand, I didn’t think that it would ever be able to be healed in this lifetime. I just thought it was something that, I didn’t know why I endured all that I endured. But now when nearly two years on, there was a reason. Now I feel as if the reason for me understanding why people would behave in the way that they behaved, to be able to understand it. You know, you can be angry, you can be frustrated, but we need to understand it so that we can know how to maneuver around it. And when you look back after writing a book and having done something, been through something like that, it makes more sense for me to share with other people, because primarily my children need to live in a better world. And that’s always been my driving force, and everybody else’s children really. And I think that we’re at a point in time where we are in living history. You know, I really do think things are changing, the mess that we see and what is on the table, before that wasn’t so clear, and especially in the UK it wasn’t so clear. So I think that the mess is good. It means something’s shifting, something’s moving. And I do believe that the voices that you hear, or we did hear for so long, were like the negative shadow, that’s where Mafia came from. But I think that’s much smaller than the bigger populace. And I think that if the bigger populace can be the louder voice and the shadow stage is small as what it is, then I think that we can live in a better world. Because we’re always going to get people that don’t want to change. But I think that the majority of people do want to change, but it’s having the right combination for people to feel comfortable, to sit down have conversations, and help us move forward basically.

[00:06:30] Paula: Yeah, that’s brilliant, isn’t it? And you know, you said something about yes, the world is changing, the masses that are accepting of, you know, changes, growing. So how would you encourage, because of course, awareness brings sometimes more interaction. So how would you encourage, or people who are interracial relationships, how would you encourage them to go into that? Now there’s more awareness, and it’s a twofold question. And other question is, how can they, people in general build more inclusive environments?

[00:07:11] Olukemi: Well, I think firstly we do have a responsibility. I know that there is some, I think everything is relevant, so I think people can be angry and upset. And I also think that people can be saying, I don’t want to talk to white people about this anymore. And I think that that’s okay, but for me, unless we have people that are prepared to talk, we’re not going to move forward because white people do not know how to fix racism. If we’re not at the table, it’s not going to happen. And I think it’s very uncomfortable for white people to invite us to the table, because it is openly recognizing that we’ve all lived in this society and all, we’ve been victims of it, but there’s a role there. So to bring the awareness of what that looks like, we need to share our stories with the people that we know. I think that that’s really important. And I think that for me, if I see a mixed race couple, I live in a small community, so I’ll always introduce myself, you know, whether they want to speak or not. Because I think that for me, if I have my children and went to school Tola went to school with black boys, and he was living up here with his mom and her white family, and he was so distressed. He had been brought up from London. People were using the N word to his face. He had no voice, nothing at all, and he couldn’t speak to his mom. His mom would stand up for him, but she couldn’t understand and he didn’t feel comfortable enough to speak to the person that he probably loved more than anybody else in the world, because our children feel shame for who they are. So I think that the adults roundabout, whether you’re of color or, it’s the awareness it needs to be in people’s mind that this is how mixed race people, people of color, live on a daily basis, because then there will be more conversation about it. It needs to be in the awareness all the time, especially in education and places like that. I think that is fundamental that we are teaching our children like, Graham that we spoke about, like he is in Glasgow just now. They are looking at George Square, so they’re looking at all the statues because you have Bell who invented the telephone, but all of his wealths was on the back of slavery. Glasgow was built on the back of slavery. There’s so many different things where we’ve been present and functional, but it’s not there in the history. So they’re looking at the statues to see what is appropriate to stay there, but what does stay there is that there’s an explanation of how their wealth was made. Like it’s, this would be a slave owner, if you like. Things are quite secretive in the UK. Do you know, it’s like you’re presented with something and you don’t question anything. So I think that this is really good that Glasgow’s doing this, and it’s going to put it out to the population to ask their opinion. But even by just asking people’s opinion of what they think, some people won’t even realize that there’s any connection in those statues at all. So I think just even starting the process and putting letters out to people, It already starts to educate and open up a different narrative. So it’s all these little things that make a massive difference, especially to the generations just now that are still in school. Because if we introduce that now that becomes their norm and it’s easy to do. There’s so many black people out there that could go in and add so much to our education systems, to our health systems, we already do, but it’s just not you. It is just not appreciated in a way that would benefit everybody.

[00:11:30] Tesse: Yeah, I like the way that you’re making these links, you know, and I’d love to build a bit more on that. Because, Paula was saying how your book impacted on my understanding and my framing of certain issues. And I would describe the book “A Brown Girl in the Ring” as a guide to people who want to confront odds and who want to find joy in living.

[00:11:56] Olukemi: Absolutely.

[00:11:57] Tesse: That’s how I would describe it. It’s kind of like for me, reframing stuff and say “we cannot control what happens to us a lot of the time, but we can control how we respond to it”. We can control that. So I would really love to hear the jewels that you can share in this kind of reframing and repurposing of our lives so that pain can become a launchpad for, I would call it post-traumatic growth, because a lot of the things you described were traumatic.

[00:12:26] Olukemi: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think that if I look back at where I was in the book and before I met David, it’s like when I met David, I didn’t even realize that the things that were happening to me weren’t okay. I’d already accepted them as a young woman that that’s just the way it was, and he came in and said, this is against the law. You can’t do this. I learned through the things that were happening to me that they shouldn’t be happening to me. So I think that what I’m trying to say is that, ask me the question again. Sorry.

[00:13:08] Tesse: Okay, so I’m going to ask the question again. Reading your book, I think how it impacted on me was that it’s a guide for people to confront all odds and find joy in living. In a way it’s a launchpad to see the things that we go through, which may be sad and painful, as a way of strengthening ourselves and repurposing those things in a way that they strengthen us rather than minimize us. So I’d be interested in your ideas about what you learned through writing the book, and ways of encouraging other people who may be on the same journey.,

[00:13:46] Olukemi: I think that there’s so many things out there now that everybody should be realizing that the race situation is being looked at. And what I’ve found with different individuals and people of color that have came to me, mixed race people, and actually specifically men since I’ve wrote the book within my community that have just broke down, because until they read something or heard something, there wasn’t a stop there to say like, what happened with me, this isn’t right. So I think as soon as you can see that within yourself, as soon as you can see that you are not within yourself leveling up, that’s where you can start to explore. As soon as you feel like that, it’s explored and take in as much as you can. Even laws, you know, look at the laws just to see that you are a full functioning society member. Because I think that black people and people of color don’t feel that way, and I think that we learn that very young. It’s not our families instill in us  love hopefully that gives us a foundation to question that. But like with my family, with my mother, that wasn’t instilled in me, so I do believe that mixed race children it’s where I keep coming back to. It’s like they can be lost in our society if their black parent doesn’t know or feel, like if they don’t have the self-worth, then the child’s not going to get the self-worth. But if society can recognize that that’s a problem, then it’s like everybody’s involved. Everybody needs to be involved, but, the hardship part of it that we go through when you realize you’ve been through it, especially at this point in time, sharing that awareness really does help, and it will help your community that you’re in. Because not everybody in your community feels that way and not everybody in your community knows that that is happening to you. So is about still awareness, but I think my message would be to people that feel that way is that you feeling that way is wrong, and I think just even to have that, to know that you’re wrong feeling that way. There’s something that happens within the constitution of a human being when the narrative changes. It’s like there’s an expansion that happens and how we think and how we feel, and we can see that happening all over the place just now. So yeah, I think it always goes back to the self for me.

[00:16:44] Tesse: Wow, that’s so powerful. Paula, you have reflections?

[00:16:48] Paula: Yeah. So I listen to you talk and, reading your book and seeing, the listeners can’t see you, but reading your book and looking at you, I can see transformation has happened in you. You know, you have transitioned into a new space and something has changed. My question is, that something that changed with the, something that has changed I want to say, what hope can you give to people who have experienced what you have, or even those who haven’t, and we’re talking about mixed race children or people, what hope would you give them? Because there’s something that has changed in you.

[00:17:31] Olukemi: Oh hugely, that I would say to them that no matter how scared they might be in this moment and feel overexposed that this is good. I have never in my lifetime seen or heard people talking so openly about things, even if the racists seem to be more open about it, you know? And I think the over-exposure is a good thing in that sense. And it’s like, I would say, hang on in there because you are worth it. I thought that I knew who I was as a mother and as a therapist and everything, and I wrote the book and I thought, God, who am I? Cause I didn’t really know who I am and in the last 18 months, I think what I’ve discovered is that I’ve discovered self-worth, actually, that’s what I’ve discovered. I’ve discovered self-worth, and that’s key. And if you’ve got self-worth, it’s like you can ask those questions. You know for me it’s about I’m going to start some meetings because I have quite a lot of people within my community that have read different books, and one of the books that they have read is a book on white supremacy, which tells them that black people aren’t going to speak to them or educate them or anything. And in my community, I’m finding that it’s a bit of a lay off, because they still wouldn’t speak to me about race. And it is like, well, how’s that working? It’s still uncomfortable. I still walk into areas and get looked at and maybe not. I’ve decided to take it to them. I’m not waiting to be invited anymore. I’m going to invite them in. Because, and the community that I live in, well I think I believe in human beings, I really do, no matter what’s happened. I believe that we are born good, we have good hearts, we have compassion. And depending on life, sometimes we can lose that. But it’s still there, it’s still there. And with the right conversation and compassion, I think that we’ll get there a hundred percent.

[00:19:43] Tesse: Wow. Yeah. Wow. Because Paula, you have asked her about the hopes and dreams of that she can feed for other people. I’m really interested in what are your hopes and dreams for yourself with this post publication, you know frame that you’re looking through?

[00:20:00] Olukemi: Well, I’m definitely continuing writing. I’d quite like a publisher this time, so I don’t need to work so hard. I decided to self-publish because I didn’t want anybody telling me I couldn’t put that in the book, because the book was very much about me finding my voice that I had never had before. So the thought of anybody critiquing it in the actual information, it was something that I felt I just needed to do myself, and luckily, I had a fantastic editor. My husband has done so much marketing for this book, so yeah, I’d like a publisher, please. You know I just think I have some joy in my life and some peace. You know that’s the journey to be peaceful and to be sane, which means I need to continue talking to make sure that that’s a reality. Yeah.

[00:21:04] Tesse: So love it. Finding your voice, you know? Now that you’ve found it, other people need to hear it. Paula?

[00:21:11] Olukemi: Yeah.

[00:21:12] Paula: Yes. I mean, as Tesse rightfully said, your voice, even what you went through is not in vain, because other people, you’re inviting people to your space. You’re not waiting for people to invite you to the table.

[00:21:26] Olukemi: No.

[00:21:27] Paula: Inviting them to your space.

[00:21:30] Olukemi: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Definitely. And I wouldn’t change anything at all in my life. Not what, I have no regrets and I totally accept what’s happened to me even to this date of what I’ve been able to change with my experience. So it’s like, yeah, I wouldn’t change it. Somebody says you could do it a different way. I would say, “no, thank you”.

[00:21:56] Paula: Oh, that’s so powerful. And so with that, I have to say again to all the listeners that your precious stories and lives matter, as we can hear from Olukemi’s experience, Olukemi’s voice, and from reading her book. So we ask you our listeners to continue to share those stories with us. And know that you are supported, encouraged, and nurtured when these stories are shared cause you’re never alone. So we ask also that to our listeners, head over to “Apple Podcast”, “Google Podcast” or “Spotify” and subscribe to our podcast and hear so many other encouraging stories like Olukemi was. And if you would like to be a guest on our show, please head over to our website, which is “www.tesseleads.com” to apply because it’s stories like Olukemi’s and others that not just matter, but the impact and change the world. Thank you so much Olukemi for being a guest on “TesseTalk” and “TesseLeads”.

[00:23:06] Olukemi: Thank you so much. It’s been fabulous.

[00:23:08] Tesse: Olukemi as always, anytime I connect with you, it’s brilliant. Thank you for being so generous and sharing your time with us. Thank you.

[00:23:18] Olukemi: Thank you. Thank you for having me.